Let’s Talk with Mel Pickup

Mel Pickup:
Hi, I’m Mel Pickup, Chief Executive of Bradford Teaching Hospitals. And welcome to this month’s episode of our podcast series, where I’m sitting down with colleagues and partners from across the trust and the wider community to find out more about them and their contributions to the health and wellbeing of the people here in Bradford. Today we’re talking about the NHS Graduate Management Training scheme, and I’m joined by one of our guests who is perfectly placed to shed light on this important programme and its impact here at the Trust.

Aisha Mirza is currently on the two year scheme and recently moved into a role in maxillo facial services, having started work with us in the EMT department. Welcome, Aisha.

Aisha Mirza:
Thank you. Really excited to be here.

Mel Pickup:
Great. Well, let’s get the ball rolling. How is it going?

Aisha Mirza:
It’s going really well. I mean, I’ve been here for about four months now, so it feels like the time has just flown by. But yeah, it’s going really well. I’m really enjoying learning about how the services are working and meeting new people. It’s very different to what my background is as I did politics at university, so it was quite new to me starting. But yeah, really enjoying it so far.

Mel Pickup:
So the programme starts with something of a whistle-stop tour of three weeks of orientation. How did this help set you up for your first proper role here at The Trust?

Aisha Mirza:
I think every trainee has about a three week orientation starting and that was just a space for us to go to different departments across the hospital and really get to know how services work, and meet with different partners across organisations. So I had a few a few visits to the A&E department. I actually got to watch the surgery, which was really exciting, and I think it was really important for me, as I say, with a background, not so much in the NHS, to really see how everything works and really set me up for my new role.

Mel Pickup:
So you’ve mentioned that you studied politics at university. That’s quite a quantum leap as that to, to go from that, to decide to apply to work in the NHS. Can you tell us a bit about why you decided that was what you wanted to do?

Aisha Mirza:
So I went to the University of Leeds to study politics and I actually did my dissertation in health policy, so I did a lot on Tony Blair’s health policy. And I think that what I really wanted to do was, was have an impact on a local level as opposed to a national level, because I feel like a lot of the policymaking in Westminster, for example, doesn’t always have that impact in communities.

So I feel like the graduate scheme was a really good place to start, to really address those issues, or some inequalities that different communities face in the NHS. And I think it’s, I think politics and the NHS, although they are quite different, they’ve just linked together so much. And so yeah, that’s why I chose to come here.

Mel Pickup:
And it’s really quite a competitive process to get, you know, it’s a very high valued graduate management training scheme, it attracts a lot of interest, I know there are, probably in the region of 17,000 applicants? Something like that? For about, is it something like 200 places?

Aisha Mirza:
Yeah. About 250.

Mel Pickup:
250. So competition’s really strong. Can you tell us a little bit about the selection process?

Aisha Mirza:
It takes around about a year to apply, so it was quite a long time of waiting and there’s three stages to the application process. So you have some work-based assignments, a video interview and then an assessment centre. And I think a lot of the tasks are designed to mirror decision making that you would do in your normal role.

As what I found is a lot of the tasks that I did throughout the application process, I sort of see my daily role now and it is quite competitive, but I’ve had a lot of people reach out to me who are applying at the moment. And I think if you have that passion and you really want to make that difference, it is a really good place to start.

So as part of the selection process, I think one challenging part for me was the assessment centre. They used to do that in person, but since COVID they changed it to Teams, which was quite different to get get used to. And, and I think it’s quite hard to portray yourself as you would in person, over a screen. And there was, round about ten other applicants on the assessment centre, and there were three parts.

So we had to do an individual task, which is, as I said, it mirrored sort of influence and decision making within a Trust or within a service. And then we had a group activity where we had to work together to come to a decision which, although challenging, I did really enjoy, which is why I felt this is for me, this is the type of thing that I love to do.

And then we had an interview with a manager. So I think they actually called a lot of different managers from across the country to interviews. I mean, as you said, 17,000 people. So I think there were a lot of different stages for this. And yeah, I think it was challenging and a lot of planning had to go in place, in preparation.

But I think if this is something that you want to do, you you will just, you know, you will just fly through it, I think, and meeting the people as well through the application process that might you might see on our welcome event on September 4th, that was really important, as it was again from the start, building those networks that will help you help you through your role.

Mel Pickup:
And typically Aisha, what sort of people apply to be on this scheme? And clearly it’s, you know, the traditional pathway for graduate schemes is, you come out of university, but I know colleagues who have sort of transitioned from clinical careers into managerial ones. So, what kind of people apply?

Aisha Mirza:
It can be anybody really, it doesn’t have to be that you’ve just graduated and this is what you applied for. It can be if you’ve graduated ten years ago or 20 years ago, and it’s people from all different backgrounds. You don’t need a specific degree to get onto the graduate scheme. So it could be, it could be a degree in music, or art, or science.

So it’s a range of different backgrounds that you see. And I think that when I ask a lot of people on the scheme, why did you choose to apply? You sort of hear the same, “I really want to help people, I really want to help people.” And I think that is such a big part of the scheme is that, helping people and helping patients is so important to such a big group of people.

And I think that just reflects the NHS as a whole, is that we want to work to support our patients and really make sure that, you know, we’re preventing illness and making sure people are happy. And so yeah, I think it’s really, really special.

Mel Pickup:
And have you, before you came to the decision about wanting to apply and you could see your future as a, an NHS manager, what was your contact with the NHS? Did you have any, I mean, you know, come in a hospital for the first time when you do in your orientation, was any of it familiar, or was it completely new?

Aisha Mirza:
I mean, I’ve got a lot of family that have backgrounds in the NHS, but for me personally, I mean the only time I’ve ever gone into hospital was as a patient and probably a couple of times. So it was quite new. And I think going back to the three week orientation that I had, that was really great to see different parts of the patient journey.

So as  a patient I think you only see your own path and you go into hospital, or you go out to a hospital, and it’s quite isolated in that sense. And I think that the orientation really helped to see all the different parts of the NHS and and how important all the roles are. And I remember saying to my mum: my mum was a paediatric nurse by background, so and I remember having some experience on one of the wards at the hospital and I said like, “I can’t believe how much responsibility it is to have that role.”

And obviously when you’re younger you don’t realise that as much.

Mel Pickup:
And that that period, that three week sort of, what we might call a “cook’s tour.” You get little glimpses of different departments and the work that we do here. Was there anything in that, that kind of made you think, “When I ultimately go into managing a service, running a service, developing, working in strategy…” wherever you are and wherever your career takes you, is there a particular speciality that you have a passion for?

Aisha Mirza:
I mean, I think since starting within ENT and then going over to Max sites, I’ve done a lot of work with the head and neck service and the head and neck cancer pathways and things. So I do think that a lot of the planned services really appeals to me because it’s sort of, an organised and…well as organised as you can be.

So I think that yeah, going forwards, planned services is definitely something that I’d like to go into.

Mel Pickup:
It’s a really interesting field isn’t it? I was walking around theatre yesterday, I was chatting to some of our colleagues who work in theatres, in Bronte Theatres and I was kind of, always very inquisitive, “what was happening in that theatre right now?” And they said, “Well, this is a case that started first thing this morning and will probably go on into the night” because such was the extent of the surgery that was required.

It was a head and neck cancer and it was a lot of kind of working with other specialities and plastic surgery and so on and so forth. It’s really interesting, isn’t it?

Aisha Mirza:
And I think as well, you see that you don’t just work with your department, you’ve got to collaborate with a lot of different teams across the hospitals. Theatres, for example, is is a department that we work really closely with when planning surgeries and such. And I do think that that team working and collaboration across the hospital is really important, but also I think across organisations as well.

There is one trainee that’s on the scheme at the moment who is doing my role, but over in Leeds. And so we’ve made that network and really help each other in that, seeing what she’s doing and what I’m doing and how we can share that knowledge.

Mel Pickup:
I guess that there’s a great kind of camaraderie that comes from being on part of a national scheme, but more locally in West Yorkshire. You’ve got your, like you’ve just alluded to, people in other organisations. Do you get the opportunity to kind of, support one another, compare notes, contrast?

Aisha Mirza:
Yeah. So, we have what is called inquiry and application groups as part of the scheme. So that’s a group of about 12 of us who are quite close locally. I’m actually going over to York hospital this Friday to meet with my group and we share what’s going on and, you know, give pieces of advice. And I think that is really helpful because when it is a new role, any new role is difficult and challenging.

And having that support from other people who are in the same position as you is really good to have.

Mel Pickup:
And as part of the scheme, clearly you’ve done your first degree. You’ve got a degree in politics. That’s great. Fantastic. But then you join the scheme and as well as all the practical experience that you’ve got, you’re actually doing a job. Being paid to do a job. You’re also expected to do some additional learning aren’t you, and to do a master’s degree?

Tell us a little bit about what opportunities come to you through being part of the scheme. Where can that take you in terms of your next formal academic learning, and how you manage to balance the two, you know, working and studying all the same time?

Aisha Mirza:
I mean, I thought my politics degree was difficult, but I think doing a job full time and studying as well. Yeah, it is challenging but I think a lot of the education and things… so the master’s degree that I’m doing at the moment is in health care leadership. So that is really giving me all the skills to apply into real life and into my role. And a lot of the education that we do is quite practical.

So it’s not your typical, you know, sit down and and revise and do all. We have a lot of tasks that we’ve got to do within work. So for example, one of my assignments last semester was on a patient observation and we had to understand how as leaders we can impact care. And that was a really eye-opening experience.

I think as part of the scheme, you wouldn’t be able to have that opportunity to go and actually see firsthand how clinicians deliver their care. So yeah, I do think that, you know, you have got to be kind to yourself because it is a lot to pack in, but at the end of the day is really beneficial for my role and I’m sure for everybody else’s.

Mel Pickup:
So management often gets a bad rep, doesn’t it, in the pres,s with a push for more clinicians and fewer managers. What would you say to those critics?

Aisha Mirza:
Yeah, I mean, I think that there is enough more than enough work for both roles. I think that there has to be a lot of understanding there between managers and clinicians in that both are experts in their own fields and we can’t do one without the other. And I think that you know, having that, we always talk about in the grand scheme, having compassionate care and leading with compassion.

And I think that is really important in this narrative that happens is, showing compassion, providing a good culture for your team to work in. That’s ultimately going to benefit, you know, our patients.

Mel Pickup:
And how would you like to see the scheme develop here at the Trust? Do you think we’re, you know, are we doing a good job supporting you? Could we do better? What would attract, do you think, other people to really think about applying to do the scheme?

Aisha Mirza:
I mean, I think things like this, having the visibility of the scheme and what it is, is really important. I think that it’s a great opportunity and here, being here, I’ve built so many different networks and I think we’re doing what we can. And yeah going forward, I mean, as I say, I’ve had a lot of people reach out to me and ask for advice.

And I think all trainees on the scheme are always willing to help and, you know, provide that support. But yeah, I think if you are thinking of applying, just go for it. And it’s a really, really good opportunity.

Mel Pickup:
And what are your hopes and dreams Aisha for the future?

Aisha Mirza:
Well, I think that when I finish the scheme, so I’m four months in, I’ve got another, I think, six months of this placement. Next year I’m going to be working in the Chief Nurses’ team, which will be really exciting. And I think after I found that I really enjoy ops and, and I think that that’s something that I want to go down in the future, maybe a Service Manager or a General Manager one day.

But I think that just keeping that notion of leading with compassion and making a really inclusive environment for everyone is really important. I think developing my own leadership skills is going to be at the forefront for me.

Mel Pickup:
That’s great. Well, thank you Aisha for joining me today. It’s fascinating. And to find out more about you and the graduate scheme that brought you into the NHS, I wish you continued success in your career. I’m sure you didn’t say it, but, you know, so let’s be honest. You’re going to be a Chief Exec, that must be somewhere in your kind of horizons.

Because you know, that is the beauty I think of the NHS. You know, my career started a slightly different path. I was a nurse, but it kind of, it gives you so much opportunity and there are no, and there should be, no bars to where you want it to take you, where you would like to end up. And actually, well, when I say Chief Exec in the Trust, which is what I am…Chief Executive of the NHS! The sky’s the limit.

Aisha Mirza:
Yeah, no, thank you.

Mel Pickup:
Aisha thank you very much. And if our listeners want to find out more about the NHS Graduate Management Training Scheme, all the details are on the NHS website. Simply go to graduates.nhs.uk